Asked 10 years, 1 month ago. Active 2 years, 4 months ago. Viewed 1. Palavuzlar Aug 16 '10 at As simple tip to understand which one to use, remove "you and" in the sentence, and see if the sentence is still correct apart from the verbs that need to be changed from plural to singular. This tip doesn't seem to work in the sentence "I don't see any reason for you and X to meet by Skype.
Active Oldest Votes. In this case, the error that's being avoided is the error of writing "you and me" in subject position, as in the following sentence: You and me are going to the store. That is, they incorrectly learn the rule about when to use "you and I", and so produce sentences like the following: You and I are going to the store. Rule of thumb: If it was just you, and you'd say "me", then when there's someone else it's "you and me".
Again if it's just you, and you'd say "I" then it becomes "John and I". DaveBoltman, by definition, native speakers speak English perfectly, though they may speak it informally. Therefore the way native speakers speak, cannot be the definition of the language.
Yet I often make the mistake being discussed on this page. For some more examples, see litreactor. DaveBoltman this is the core of the distinction between descriptivism and prescriptivism.
On this site we tend towards "enlightened descriptivism", that is, we accept things in widespread usage by educated speakers as correct. Use of the oblique pronouns in subject position with conjuctions is widespread, though it's not suitable for formal situations. Nicely explained. Really like the way you explain it. One thing: "You and I hate Phil" sounds dreadful too! While thinking about what you'd say without the "you and" might seem helpful, it actually isn't, because the different structures mean the the cases get assigned differently.
No offense taken. I think your Imagine examples are clearly right or wrong to native English speakers, and it's the trick I use, but I don't think either is obviously right or wrong to a non-native speaker. I suspect learning the subjective vs the objective cases, as explained by PDG, is more likely to work when nothing sounds right or wrong due to lack of experience. Matthew: Correct. The formal way would usually be used with non-native speakers, whilst the my informal cheating way is usually used with native speakers.
Colin Fine Colin Fine The paper is now available online at fine. I believe the following qualifies as a "slightly more complicated example": "The teacher gave a sticker to he who did it best. Style 1: You and me beat him. He hates you and me. Excellent answer, with one small exception. I can personally attest to at least one large extended family where this construction is virtually unheard. If it were uttered at all, it would meet with the same response as "Him did it," or "Her gots one.
I had overstated this part. I think it's fixed now. To add to the previous examples by kdt. So when you want to tell that you did some action then use "I" e. My mother and I went to the market. If some action is received by you then make the use of "Me". Vijay offered some chocolates to you and me. If this were the rule in English, "My mother and I am happy" would be correct since "I am happy" is correct. It is "My mother and I" that needs to be in the subjective case in the sentence "My mother and I went to the market".
So this doesn't tell us whether the X should be "I" or "me" to make "My mother and X" subjective. The American Language Henry L. North, South and Over the Sea M. Francis Mrs.
Francis Blundell. This topic is very controversial, and others are sure to have their own opinions on it. Thank you so much CalifJim! CalifJim I'm convinced that there are no right answers to this question, by the way! Well, you are right! By the way, in formal writing I guess the best thing to do is to avoid those kinds of constructions completely.
You know, I just asked two American friends this thing. Well, they don't know! I've read posts in forums, I found teachers'opinions, native speakers'opinions, online grammar tips, and it turned out to be a great mess since they often disagree with each other.
But what it is important is that often people don't seem to notice these "little mistakes". That is, nobody knows what is correct between "My friend are what makes me happy" and " My goal is to know idiomatic english, not to know a lot of rules that probably I'll never remember and nobody uses. So I think I'll use the sentences I wrote as guesses in informal contexts of course , and make or makes in sentences like "My friends are what makes me feel better".
I feel this choices are idiomatic, though they might be not grammatically correct. Obviously, structures like "we are the ones I know Spanish and Italian conjugate verbs differently for singular and plural you, but they also have different pronouns; they don't use different forms of the verb with the same pronoun.
Whenever you is the second person singular or the second person plural, the conjugation of be for you is are. You is not an exception: The first, second, and third person singular all use a different conjugation. Sign up to join this community. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top. Home Questions Tags Users Unanswered. Ask Question. Asked 7 years, 5 months ago. Active 2 years, 4 months ago. Viewed 73k times. Jonathan Garber 3, 1 1 gold badge 17 17 silver badges 36 36 bronze badges.
Sarah Sarah 23 1 1 gold badge 1 1 silver badge 3 3 bronze badges.Yous definition, plural of you. See more. Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged Digital Edition © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. ,